To Put Down a Dracolich, Part 2

Just wanted to clarify the plan first, then discuss options for getting around in this particular stinky mage-hole.

1) Find Malagor and his pet Dracolich. Probably good to assume that the mage is there, though Tentarius said he wasn't sure...

2) Kill said dracolich and stinky mage that created the hole

3) Find Rod

4) Find (white)dracolich's phylactery and destroy it? Would it even be there? Should we take the time? Seems like permanently putting down a dracolich would be a good idea, but if time is an issue, we have a much...MUCH bigger problem to deal with...

5) Everyone Wind Walks to Candlekeep with Rod

6) Therogeon and Ashara (a very, very surly Ashara at the prospect of having to stay behind) stay in Candlekeep until Therogeon can complete the Legend Lore spell on the Rod to determine how to destroy it.

7) After night one in Candlekeep, Eddick, Gwilly, Elric and Kaber Wind Walk first to the base of the great stairway before we entered Dagadar. Day four they head to the Gorge of the Fallen Idol, Day six is the Forest of Wyrms where the green dragon was slain, Day 8 is Waterdeep down in the sewers were we took out the slime god, and day ten is back to Candlekeep.

8 ) Using the knowledge gained by Therogeon, we destroy the Rod and thusly the MHW (Most Hated Wyrm)'s phylactery.

9) MHW Finds us??

10) We destroy it and somehow keep Annalganan from getting smited by both ourselves and whomever else wants a crack at him... Which might be lots of people...

That about sum it up? What am I leaving out?

Is it bad when you have to specify WHICH dracolich you're referring to?

M'kay... Not sure if it could help really, since I don't know much about the nature of phylacteries, but Ashara has a spell (which has actually been prayed for on this day) called Exorcise. Not ExERsise... it mainly negates possession of a creature by an outside or supernatural force, BUT it also can affect magical items that can contain souls. If successful, it expels the life force contained to inhabit its nearest material body. There is a base percentage chance, set by the DM, then modified by the difference in level between priest and possessing magic. One chance to roll per turn, and she can be at it for 100 turns. Can't be interrupted though or spell is done.

My question... Would this work on the Rod/Phylactery? What would happen if the dragon's soul was expelled?

Another spell called Spirit Bind(Release) would sever a spirit's ties to the material world. Unwilling, non-corporeal undead are entitled to a saving throw to reisist the spell at a -5 penalty because of my level. If they fail, the undead spirit departs for teh outer planes.

So... Would this work against the spirit in the Rod/Phylactery?

Just a couple of thoughts to throw out there!

Okay, still too wired to sleep...

Options for the Prismatic Wall?

Stone shape around it after destroying the demon creatures. As soon as we figure out how to GET to the demon creatures!

Therogeon Teleports and gets a scroll of Passwall and Magic Missle? Though Therogeon couldn't cast the Magic Missle scroll (Though Magic Missile is also under the Force School, does that mean it's okay?), Gwilly has a pretty good chance of successfully casting from the scroll. Maybe get a couple scrolls just in case?

There's still the Antimagic Shell option, though we'd have to use it again to get out once we have the Rod.

As for the demons...

One note: Heroes' Feast makes us Immune to Poison (so Eddick wouldn't have been affected by their poison anyway), Blessed, Immune to Fear, Hopelessness and Panic for 12 hours.

If we can take these things out without engaging them directly it might be for the best. If they are demons they could be kind of nasty, and we don't want to use up all the spells and healing before we even get to the dracolich. Do we have any spells available that would 'push' the five of them into the Prismatic Wall? I can surround them with a Wall of Fire and let em cook until dead. Therogeon has some wands and such too. I'm just trying to think of ways to take them out with the minimum danger and spell usage.

Note about Legend Lore:

If they actually HAVE the item in question... the casting time is 1d4 turns

If they only go on rough description it is 1d10 DAYS....

We MAY not need to split the group at all if we actually GET the rod first THEN find a way to destroy it!!! Back at Athkatla that was the debate... but we went with get it first and 'hopefully' save the city.... /world.

Also his Maledweomer spell lets him cast spells at best possible result... so is there a reason why that wouldn't work on THIS spell? Best result would be 1 Turn.

1 Day if he cast it NOW....

We MAY not need to split the group at all if we actually GET the rod first THEN find a way to destroy it!!! Back at Athkatla that was the debate... but we went with get it first and 'hopefully' save the city.... /world.

Tantarius told us that Malagor has the Rod and he keeps it in the Vault that we're in now, so I really hope that we're able to get it! Not splitting up the group for DAYS seems like all kinds of win to me!!

Say we do get the Rod after Malagor and his pet go down... Do we still Wind Walk to Candlekeep so Therogeon can cast his spell in peace and we can rest a night, or do we have him cast his spell down there in the Vault? Then we'll have to go accomplish whatever it takes to destroy the Rod. We will most assuredly need to rest somewhere after that fight!



Just realized I can now take TWO people with me while Wind Walking!

Awesome!!!

As for where to cast it... I would say right there in the vault! If it was a day or two that's different... If it's just a few TURNs... We shouldn't have to go all the way to Candlekeep for THAT!

Also the less splitting up the party does the better! ESPECIALLY Ashara and Elric! It's ONE thing if they miss the wedding... It's something ENTIRELY different if being chased by a dragon/god/avatar/phoenix thing, and they're at completely different parts of the WORLD then!

Elric would NOT be very good company if that happesn

Ashara wrote:
Another spell called Spirit Bind(Release) would sever a spirit's ties to the material world. Unwilling, non-corporeal undead are entitled to a saving throw to reisist the spell at a -5 penalty because of my level. If they fail, the undead spirit departs for teh outer planes.

So... Would this work against the spirit in the Rod/Phylactery?

Just a couple of thoughts to throw out there!

Question: Which spell was it that Pat's druid did to Josh's half/orc? The one that stuck the spirit exactly where it was, and DIDN"T let it move on?

As I understand liches... (Studying Van Richten's guide for playing Ryn) The lich has a body... ONce the body is destroyed, the spirit returns to the gem (for lack of a better word, and not wanting to spell phylactery too often) Once it is there, it waits till it can inhabit a new dead body. If there are no dead bodies the spirit can be stuck in the gem for centuries... so the the gem HAS to be put somewhere that it can EVENTUALLY come near a corpse. It does not Regrow it's original body... it takes a new one. If it's overly vain it can polymorph it to the original shape... but it's not the same body.

Those are Mummies... THEY regenerate from Ash and keep coming back.

Now what happens if you can bind the soul TO the gem? To the point that it can NEVER leave? Does Ashara have access to THAT spell?

I'm a little leery about Exorcising it, because they kind of do that naturally? They leave the gem for a better body. If we kick it out of the gem, it would be free to roam and find a lizard or something to possess.


Of course we STILL have the issue of the Phoenix aspect... I don't know HOW that fits in with phylacteries or what not? Does it just ressurect itself on the spot? Does the soul EVER go BACK to the Gem??? It seems kind of counterproductive to combine the two actually...



Would the dead Dracolich ressurect as a Dracolich? Or would it return to life as a real live Dragon?? The combination of Life and Undeath is throwing me on this one...

Elric wrote:
Question: Which spell was it that Pat's druid did to Josh's half/orc? The one that stuck the spirit exactly where it was, and DIDN"T let it move on?

Now what happens if you can bind the soul TO the gem? To the point that it can NEVER leave? Does Ashara have access to THAT spell?

Yep! Yvelsa (Pat's druid) used Spirit Bind, but the reading over the spell, the Area of Effect is 'supposed' to be a corpse, and a soul can only be bound within 16 rounds of death...does that count if the soul is a dracolich? More than that though, if the body is destroyed (or in this case the gem/phylactery) then the spirit goes free. So, if Pat would even allow that spell to be cast on the phylactery following the dracolich's death, and if the phylactery was ever destroyed than the spirit would be free to find a new host.

Hopefully whatever way Therogeon discovers to destroy the Rod, it won't take TOO long or be TOO difficult! Though we'll see...considering it is Myrkul's Rod and all...

Elric wrote:Of course we STILL have the issue of the Phoenix aspect... I don't know HOW that fits in with phylacteries or what not? Does it just ressurect itself on the spot? Does the soul EVER go BACK to the Gem??? It seems kind of counterproductive to combine the two actually...



Would the dead Dracolich ressurect as a Dracolich? Or would it return to life as a real live Dragon?? The combination of Life and Undeath is throwing me on this one...

Tentarius told us that we would have to find a way to prevent the resurrection from happening. Not sure how to do that yet... Dracolich to live dragon? Interesting... Would certainly be better than another DRACOLICH, but if there is away to stop it, I hope we can find it! Black flames give him the ability we were told. He will rise from the black flames when he is killed I assume. Can the magic of the flames be dispelled? Dispel Evil?

I don't know... I just don't know... So many problems yet to solve and so few gaming days left to us!

Here are some of my thoughts.

If the dragon had a permanent magical effect (black flames) that could be dispelled providing we did it at the right time. (ie, 1d4 rounds before we kill it) Secondly, flames need a source to burn. If we disintigate the remains, It might keep the Dracolich from being reborn. Additionally, we could douse the remains with magical water (i.e. holy water or an elemental) and hope that the lack of fire will prevent the resurrection.

The other thing we could do is barter with Malagor, give him Amn in return for the destruction of Xvim. Right now it looks like the dragon is taking over the country. We might not have to fight Malagor if we can strike this deal. His alternative is that the Xvim takes over amn, and then what? Is the god of tyranny going to share power? If we succeed, Amn would still be ripe for whatever he was doing earlier. Im just saying we could cut a deal.

Eddick the Steady (XIV) wrote:The other thing we could do is barter with Malagor, give him Amn in return for the destruction of Xvim. Right now it looks like the dragon is taking over the country. We might not have to fight Malagor if we can strike this deal. His alternative is that the Xvim takes over amn, and then what? Is the god of tyranny going to share power? If we succeed, Amn would still be ripe for whatever he was doing earlier. Im just saying we could cut a deal.

As long as he is willing to give up the Rod so we can destroy it, than it could definitely be an option! We can't really give him Amn...not really ours to give. We can however give him the chance to live. Ashara has no desire to kill Malagor, though his pursuit of Harper destruction might cause some of our members to wish him dead. The dracolich however needs to be put down. Either before we take out the MHW or after, it makes no matter. She won't be able to swear any oaths that she'll leave it be. Letting something like that go free flies in the face of everything Lathander is about. Thou shalt not suffer a lich to live!

what if we made a DRACOKABERLICH???

just throwing that out there...

DRACOKABERLICH?

Ashara wrote:Thou shalt not suffer a lich to live!

/sigh...

I always knew it'd come down this.....

Ashara wrote:
The dracolich however needs to be put down. Either before we take out the MHW or after, it makes no matter. She won't be able to swear any oaths that she'll leave it be. Letting something like that go free flies in the face of everything Lathander is about. Thou shalt not suffer a lich to live!

I think it can hear you Ashara....

Might be best if we don't EVEN bring that thing up... Its still WAY to sentient to agree to utter destruction...

Elric wrote:Might be best if we don't EVEN bring that thing up... Its still WAY to sentient to agree to utter destruction...

Weeellll, we don't have to TELL it that we'll kill it as soon as we've finished with MHW! Actually...it wouldn't surprise me one bit if, after helping us defeat MHW, that Malagor and his pet turn on us!

LOL, For some reason... I REALLY hope that doesn't happen... After MHW goes down... I don't think we'll have enough left to deal with another fight... Can't we rest up and destroy that one NEXT week


If we're looking for best possible solution... They JOIN with us AGAINST the MHW.. and the white Dracolich dies a horrible death after tearing up MHW a LOT...

That's my new goal


Of course if they turn on us that clears up any shades of grey... they have to be dusted...

C'mon people... Tell me we have more ideas....


I still don't feel confident about this fight yet

Well, maybe we should try to sum up the plan thus far...

1) Demons - I personally would like to try to kill them afar to minimize spell use and/damage to ourselves. I could surround them with firewall for example and cook until done, or we can perhaps do something to push them into the Prismatic Wall? Which bring us to...

2) Prismatic Wall - Either Eddick Stone Shapes us a tunnel around the Wall, or Therogeon ports out to go get scrolls of Passwall and Magic Missle. Gwilly has a good chance of being able to correctly cast the Magic Missle scroll.

3) Deal with whatever comes next - There is some concern that Therogeon has already used up quite a few of his "dracolich" spells already, and there is a possibility we might need to spend a night in the fissure...

4) Malagor and white dracolich - Big Matt has a plan for Walls of Force and Globes of Invulnerabiliy which should protect us against spells & breath weapons if we get those timed right. I'm REALLY hoping those Henley's Digits of Disruption will simply destroy the dragon where it stands after Therogeon casts Lower Resistance on it. That would make my day. Now the dracolich can paralyze with it's touch if a save is missed, so that could be ugly... Maybe Malagor will want to strike a deal with us. If we kill the white dracolich, maybe some of us can look for the phylactery while Therogeon is busy with part 5.

5) Deal or no, we need that Rod - While we're down in the Vault, Therogeon will cast his Legend Lore spell, which needs 1-10 turns of uninterrupted study.

6) Destroy the Rod, which is the phylactery for the MHW - I have NO idea what is going to be required of us in order to destroy it, we'll have to see, but whatever it is, that has to get accomplished BEFORE we find the MHW....or he finds us...

Wondering if MHW would count as Extra-planar creature.

Phoenix's are considered Extra-planar.

gods are not natural to this plane....


Don't know what/if that's important.... Very sleepy this morning

I think I should knock it out of the air with a whirlwind, onto something unstable so it has trouble righting itself, like, you know, Calimport. Then Therogeon will weaken it with spells, Elric and Kaber will beat on it, Therogeon should Disintegrate it. When it comes alive again out of the fires of rebirth, Gwilly will dump holy water on it while Ashara smashes it with Dawnspeaker until it explodes in a big flash of light.

Not the smoothest of plans, but it might just work!

Crazy talk...

That would NEVER happen! Lets find a plan with a shot at WORKING!!!

next thing you know he'll suggest Eddick climbs a tall tower and challenges it head on

do we ressurect a nymph too and leave it stuck in a cave with a wall of force and the visage of shar??

you know, just throwing things out

Nahhh.. That's not necessary.

As soon as Shar shows up in the Cave Therogeon is dropping the wall

Although... I forsee there being a VERY confused Nymph....